"Distribution packaging for #Linux desktop applications is unsustainable"
> First, it will never be the year of the "Linux desktop", as Linux is only a kernel and doesn't operate on its own.
Did you mean systemd/Linux?
Cant say this makes sense. Obviously linux needs many things to run and doesnt run on its own. It needs systemd, gnu userland, a x86 cpu, a motherboard, electricity, etc.. we dont say "Today is the year of linux, systemd, x86, motherboard, electricity"... we just say linux.
why, because its the component we care about in this discussion. We are sayi g "is this the year desktops finally start using linux as its kernel".
@Suiseiseki Most people refer to linux as the OS they run, but no they arent making a mistake, they just arent being padantic. Most know quite well its a component in a larger system and only represents the kernel. They simply dont care to geek out and explain what they mean in a padantically long explanation. They say Linux and are done with it.
Now nothing wrong with you wanting to be padantic and explicit about it. By all means go for it, I get where you are coming from. But no, its not people getting it wrong, its people not caring to get into the distinction.
Its also important to point out that there are a dozen alternatives to systemd, just as there are many alternatives to the kernel, linux. I love linux, I really dont care if i am running systemd or one of its alternatives. So I am far more apt to announce the linux part of my setup than anything to do with systemd.
> Everything I've seen so far is the opposite - rather most people don't know it's only a kernel: https://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-users-never-heard-of-gnu.en.html
I will use my own experience as opposed to trusting what is possibly the most bias source one could find on this matter.
> There's no need for a long explanation - you can just call it GNU and be done with it and save yourself a few characters.
No because the GNU userland may not be what they are praising or caring about. I care that i am on Linux, The GNU component in that isnt as note worthy for me nor needing mentioning in most of the context i bring up linux. I am more than happy to run Linux with alternatives to GNU userland installed.
> systemd at least is free software unlike Linux - which contains proprietary software.
That doesnt change anything in this conversation
> I like GNU Linux-libre, but not the proprietary malware Linus releases.
Great, since GNU is what you are focusing on in what you say, because its an important part, then by all means say it. Just dont get your underwear in a bunch just because other people dont care to mention the GNU component and are simply happy about the Linux component or feel its the component worth mentioning.
How lovely it is when the Pragmatist and the Ideologue hammer the nails.
1. "Linux" conquered the global mindshare, by a combination of coincidences, influences, agendas and possibly malignant actors. FSF/GNU messaging was (is?) weak.
2. GNU and Linux are both successes from the strengths of the other. GNU would probably have been dead by now, had Linux not showed up. And had GNU not existed, Linux would probably not have taken off.
Keep going! Enjoying this...
@Suiseiseki
1. "popular" back then, we are talking thousands, maybe 10s of thousands of users. The Linux distros amplified that by 2 magnitudes early on. Would GNU have survived? Yes, most likely. Like Forth still survive today. Would GNU be a dominant force in software development? Perhaps. Would it be a primary OS for Internet. Most probably not.
2. GNU/Hurd; " started before Linux" --> case in point. First mover advantage, and still no advantage. Still no 1.0 release. That's mindshare.
I notice that you can't read!! First message; "And had GNU not existed, Linux would probably not have taken off."
I am more of a pragmatist than an ideologist - if a compromise is required to solve a problem, but doing such will eliminate problem, I don't have much issue making a temporary compromise.
I do not make permanent compromises that don't end up solving the an issue mind you.
>"Linux" conquered the global mindshare, by a combination of coincidences, influences, agendas and possibly malignant actors. FSF/GNU messaging was (is?) weak.
I do not care in the slightest about "mindshare".
The messaging is not weak at all, it is very strong - it's just that we usually cannot do better than messaging from large businesses dedicated to manipulating people.
>GNU and Linux are both successes from the strengths of the other. GNU would probably have been dead by now, had Linux not showed up. And had GNU not existed, Linux would probably not have taken off.
I don't understand how free software is meant to be "dead" just because it lacks a kernel for a while.
GNU software was very "popular" on proprietary Unix's during its development as well.
If Linux didn't exist, GNU/Hurd would have been completed instead - development of such started before Linux mind you.
Meanwhile, Linux wouldn't have become "popular" without GNU, as a kernel is useless by itself and even if it did (i.e. a bunch of other software was somehow found and also made to work), such resulting OS would likely be all proprietary, as GNU is the only nontrivial OS I've seen that actually cares about being all free software.